India Against Corruption

Register

  India Against Corruption > ANTIRESERVATION FORUM > DISCUSSIONS on Reservation > Opinion

Debate: Is Corruption & Reservation Linked?

Is Corruption & Reservation Linked?? Please post your comments on this. Edited by Admin after pulling from another thread to .....



: Is Corruption & Reservation Linked?
Yes - read my opinion... 4 33.33%
No. 6 50.00%
Can't Say, May be. Read my opinion... 2 16.67%
: 12.


  #1  
04-11-2011
Member
 
: Apr 2011
: Delhi
: 38
:
: 39 | 0.01 Per Day
Exclamation Debate: Is Corruption & Reservation Linked?


Is Corruption & Reservation Linked??
Please post your comments on this.



Edited by Admin after pulling from another thread to ensure a quality discussion.
__________________
Regards,
Sanjay Rai
A Small Sepoy
India Against Corruption
  #2  
04-12-2011
Senior Member
 
: Oct 2009
:
: 216 | 0.04 Per Day

We have to solve/take-up the issues which hit us directly. You remove the reservation system and see the shape of the government offices. These incompetent employees/officers are corrupting the entire system. In simple terms-
Remove the reservation, corruption will vanish by default. These ST/ST/OBC are basically not god-fearing.


Edited by Admin after pulling from another thread to ensure a quality discussion.
  #3  
04-12-2011
Junior Member
 
: Apr 2011
: Presently chennai
:
: 2 | 0.00 Per Day

My Dear Brother @ Vinay

You are true in every sense about the resevation system as many get govt jobs who are not eligible but my removing this system u r never going to eradicate corruption bcoz nowadays everyone is equally involved .
  #4  
04-12-2011
Senior Member
 
: Oct 2009
:
: 216 | 0.04 Per Day

I had told in another post that 70-80% of the govt employees are from SC/ST/OBC in present configuration. 99% of them are fearless and do not do any duty without harassment or bribe. From 20-30% of open category employees, 50% are either god-fearing or simply the honest employees who do not wish to defame their fore-fathers. I would request you to observe the working method of quota fellow in any govt office and kindly convey your observation to us. For example, take RTO. In earlier days, most of the constables/inspectors were from upper caste and had some brain to apply in different circumstances but nowadays most of them are from ST/ST/OBC who will not in any case leave you without taking money. If you look from a gentleman's family then there is no chance at all.
  #5  
04-12-2011
Member
 
: Apr 2011
: Delhi
: 38
:
: 39 | 0.01 Per Day

@ Vinay brother! I am not able to understand the co-relation of corruption and caste ie reservation. Is it ethically and humanly proper to say that people belonging to one class are more corrupt than others! Have any sociologist proved this co-relation? There is an adage - "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". So does that infer, powerful, upper caste is more corrupt? Upper caste has dominated Indian Poltics, so may i dare to conclude that Upper caste is more corrupt and insensitive towards corruption? Because it has not intended to take any remedial action or legislate against corruption?
These claims are suicidal having no research backing. Neither, i am able to verify the claim that 70-80 % of government jobs are in the hands of reservation beneficiaries. It would be appreciable if you can substantiate your claim by citing any authentic source. At the first instance, it is looking blatant distortion of facts. When government has been providing 22.5 % reservation since independence (which increased to the extent of 50 % after Mandal commission recommendation implementation in 1990), then how could reservation beneficiaries can reach to 70-80 %? And if your claim is considered to be true, then it means that over 45 % of these caste students has got the job on merit. (80 - 35 % = 45 %). 35 % has been taken as employees who has come via reservation at the moment by roughly adjusting 22.5% prevailing in 1990 and 50% currently prevailing. So are you saying that irrespective of merit/competence, people from specific castes are more vulnerable to corruption; and caste and corruption both are highly co-related?

By accepting the claim of 80 % of employees are from castes eligible for reservation, it may be inferred that they are equally compatible. Which is not true as cut off shows this. Hence, i have no option but to conclude that beneficiaries of reservation are far less and currently could exist between 33-38 % of overall employee base in government system cumulative of state and central. Now this suggest that over 60% employee base have come via no reservation benefits. Hence, as per your argument that greater population in employee base should be held accountable for corruption compel me to derive the conclusion that "Employees of no-reservation benefit tend to be corrupt more than other".

Candidly, i don't believe in both ie that there is any co-relation between caste and corruption or reservation benefit vs corruption.

Your candid feedbacks are welcome!
__________________
Regards,
Sanjay Rai
A Small Sepoy
India Against Corruption
  #6  
04-13-2011
Senior Member
 
: Oct 2009
:
: 216 | 0.04 Per Day

Dear and respected Admin!
The mass is mobilised and regenerated to take up another burning issue of reservation. You must have noticed, a good number of people are charged and are desperate to do away with reservation system. Now their next generation is bleeding for want of govt jobs. The black money in Swiss bank, Adarsh scam or 2G scam are not directly affecting our children but reservation system does. The hard work of theirs are rotting.


Edited by Admin after pulling from another thread to ensure a quality discussion.
  #7  
04-13-2011
Member
 
: Apr 2011
: Mumbai
: 48
:
: 36 | 0.01 Per Day

Dear Vinay,

I wish to highlight the following:

"These ST/ST/OBC are basically not god-fearing."
"...had told in another post that 70-80% of the govt employees are from SC/ST/OBC in present configuration. 99% of them are fearless and do not do any duty without harassment or bribe."


Now, aren't these as insidious, hateful and biased as saying that the upper-classes are to blame for all the caste-based discrimination?

Reservation is bad today due to the way it is practised - its goals were subverted by political greed and it has become a tool to generate votes. If practised correctly it has the potential to uplift the downtrodden people.

Now, no one said that just because the selection criteria for the backward classes is less strict as compared to that of the upper classes, so is the standard of work that can be expected from them. Unfortunately it has become so - standard of work in govt. offices is nowhere compared to the private sector. Is reservation to blame? IMO primarily not - that's because its more of an attitude problem ("chalta hai, kal dekh lenge, apna kya jaata hai", and so on). Is this attitude a trait of the SC/ST/OBC alone? It would be hugely unfair to say so.

IMO the major cause of bad quality of govt. work are unions - these started out as bodies that ensured fair treatment of employees, and soon turned into bodies that simply protected its members - even if they are genuinely wrong. In other words, in govt. offices you cannot take easily disciplinary action on an erring employee who belongs to a union - the union will simply throw the entire office's functioning out of gear. That is the reason why there's no quality - most employees belong to one or the other union, and relax in the assurance that they have the union to back them up. So work is lax. Only those employees not too much into unionism usually move up the ladder - but they are still stuck with subordinates who have unions to back them up...so again its the same vicious circle.
  #8  
04-13-2011
Member
 
: Apr 2011
: Delhi
: 38
:
: 39 | 0.01 Per Day
Is this an illusion?

Dear and respected Admin!
The mass is mobilised and regenerated to take up another burning issue of reservation. You must have noticed, a good number of people are charged and are desperate to do away with reservation system. Now their next generation is bleeding for want of govt jobs. The black money in Swiss bank, Adarsh scam or 2G scam are not directly affecting our children but reservation system does. The hard work of theirs are rotting.


Edited by Admin after pulling from another thread to ensure a quality discussion.
@ Vinay Brother! I got the impression of illusion here. First point, Is analogy of corruption and reservation right and do exist? Second question, Is public antipathy across all strata as good as of corruption? Third question, Will mass mobilization occur to the extent of what happened for anti-corruption movement?

These questions needs to be critically analyzed. To my observation and analysis, analogy of reservation and corruption is illusionary. In recent times, spurt of scams and corruption activities had acted as catalyst and crated agony in the mind of people, people were raising voices on several platform and Movement of Anna ji provided the right platform at right time (After world cup and before IPL, swaying away the world cup media following to Anti-corruption..read Sanjay Baru, C.L. Manoj and P.B. Mehta), however in case of reservation, it is hard to say that agony exist in that magnanimity, people of different strata are divided and don't have absolte support which was for corruption. Even forward caste people also are not 100 % against the reservation system. Based on above, it is very difficult to conclude that mass mobilization will occur. The big difference lies in the interest of movement-pioneers. One way, it couldn't be said that there was self-interest of Anna Hazare ji's group in staging Anti-corruption movement however same is not true with Anti-reservation movement. All the anti-reservation campaigners have some kind of obviously visible self-interest. And this phenomenon have the potential to weaken the movement in the mind of people psychologically.

Being the lonely warrior doesn't promise the success. My submission for reservation is simple.
- Don't make a campaign for abolition of reservation rather than do it for reform in reservation policy
- Sensitize the beneficiaries and downtrodden that this kind of reservation system don't benefit them.
- win their hearts and include their voices in campaign
- Bring more ethically right Reservation Policy based on Mutiple-indices.
- Bring one family- one time reservation doctrine.
- Bring once in life-cycle reservation doctrine
- Make a cap of Rs. 2 lakh/annum for reservation benefits ie Creamy layer cap at Rs. 2 lakh rather than Rs. 4.5 lakh.
- Limit the reservation to 40 %

These views holistically represent the development goal and India's aspiration of being super power in foreseeable future. India's labour force is increasing day by day and it has become number one in active labour -force in world pushing China at 2nd spot. However, the larger question, in national interest is, will india able to take the demographic dividend? Current situation of education and skill development are not encouraging and inspite of India being number one in labour force, it is lagging behind than China in terms of skilled work-force making these labour force unemployable. A recent survey by conducted under the leadership of sociologist Prof Vivek Kumar, covering 166 villages across 22 states, conclude that more than 50 % of poor belong to SC/ST category. Also, more than 75% population of SC/STs are under poverty. Under this kind of poverty, one can't expect to make skill development possible in-spite of good move of by Central government in constituting National Skill Development Council (NSDC) under leadership of S. Ramadorai. So somehow, India, as a nation needs to bring out those poors out of their poverty and equip them with required skills to enable India to get demographic dividend. And if India will be able to do so then that will be startling point of India's rising in horizon of Global Affairs as a super power.

That's what my point of view w.r.t reservation is.
__________________
Regards,
Sanjay Rai
A Small Sepoy
India Against Corruption
  #9  
04-13-2011
Member
 
: Apr 2011
: Mumbai
: 48
:
: 36 | 0.01 Per Day

@Sanjay Rai, Well said. We cannot directly link reservation (or its abuse) to corruption. For one, corruption is a manifestation of underlying attitude - IMO every one has, at some point or the other, done something that amounts to corruption. The deed may be small, perhaps even unimportant or negligible...but the question is can a person be 100% corruption-free? NO. It is human nature to be selfish, to look for an easy way out and some amount of corruption will remain in our society no matter how many laws we have. In fact the more laws we have the more corruption we have - basically everytime we have a body to enforce something, people in it will start taking money to do their job. The so-called "licence raj" is a classic example - you had so many departments to approve papers if you wanted to set up a business, supposedly to ensure that businesses remain "Indian" (protectionism, basically) and what did it achieve? Every official in each dept started taking money to move your papers!!

The root cause behind this is the general loss of self-respect and "scarcity mentality" of the general public. Typically govt. employees earn only a modest sum as salary. Now its like this: "You want to start a business? This means you have a lot of money. I don't so if you want me to move your papers, you better pay me - it should not be such a big thing for you because you have a lot of money. Why should you make a lot of money while I don't even though its me who moves your papers?" The effect is those who have money pay up, start business, make more money and basically grow big. The poor guy gets left out - he doesn't have money to bribe, while the rich guy keeps getting richer - he pays the bribe, gets work done, expands, and it becomes a vicious circle.

Now the situation is such that even if these govt. employees are given a good salary they will not change their ways - what was once "scarcity mentality" is now "greed" - imagine a municipal official owning 2-3 flats, having 4-5 cars, and what not!! It is the result of the above.
  #10  
04-13-2011
Senior Member
 
: Oct 2009
:
: 216 | 0.04 Per Day

It is very nice to have different views and opinions before a single-liner resolution. This is first step of our movement. To make things simple, I am using minimum words with a broader definition. Please read carefully.
We want complete abolition of the reservation system because-
1. Different people are suggesting different ways and creating confusions.
2. In every country, some kind/level of poverty exists but there is no system like reservation.
3. We can not wish to have a social structure free of barbers,carpenters,goldsmith,blacksmith,cobblers,s weepers,loaders,coolies,masons,labors,vegetable vendors,chakkiwalas,paperwalas etc etc.
4. Non-beneficiaries of reservation system are not ready to compromise with quality. And last
5. The fittest have to survive and the weakest have to disappear as per law of the nature.

 



India Against Corruption
India Against Corruption is a PUBLIC Forum, NOT associated with any organisation(s).
DISCLAIMER: Members of public post content on this website. We hold no responsibility for the same. However, abuse may be reported to us.

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0