High time.....anna supporters should contest next elections and we should make them win

subodhkatiyar · #11 08-28-2011

Created the group, as and when you find time contribute...
About studies etc - you can always find time even when you are practicing politics, just think how come one person find enough time to raise 12 kids and still be a neta :-p, studies are much easier.

Summit Ensign · #12 08-28-2011

Created the group, as and when you find time contribute...
About studies etc - you can always find time even when you are practicing politics, just think how come one person find enough time to raise 12 kids and still be a neta :-p, studies are much easier.

12 Kids....Father of a Mini-Nation...???

Anyways, congratulations on creating the group....could you provide me the link please...?

Ok...for Studies...I know in most cases you might be able to find some time...but the one that I'm doing leaves me with hardly any...now don't ask me what I'm doing...I'll tell you if, and once, I'm able to get through...

But please do provide me the link here.

Thanks.

Summit.

subodhkatiyar · #13 08-28-2011

Hmm hope you are not studying to be next B@B@ sahab or something like that... rewriting the const. again, anything else is less draining.

here is the link
http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.com/group80.html

I am new to IAC and the forum here, so if you can't join or there is some issue drom me a message.

Summit Ensign · #14 08-28-2011

Well Subodh,

Running India is much tougher than running any other nation....because of the immense diversity that is packed in its unity.

And if you seek leaders to elevate it to the next level, it might also necessitate to grow the ability to "rewrite the const. again".

Running this country IS tough, and will probably always continue to be. Therefore, you'll do good to garner as much education under your belt as possible.

And that is just not for Netas. Every citizen needs to possess that treasure.

Hope I didn't soak you wet with my ranting downpour there -

Thanks for the link. I did locate the group when I went scouting earlier, but still good to have a link in case I ever get lost in the jungle.

Thanks again. Take Care.

Jai Hind.

Summit.

raghavwidluv · #15 08-28-2011

Well Subodh,

Running India is much tougher than running any other nation....because of the immense diversity that is packed in its unity.

And if you seek leaders to elevate it to the next level, it might also necessitate to grow the ability to "rewrite the const. again".

Running this country IS tough, and will probably always continue to be. Therefore, you'll do good to garner as much education under your belt as possible.

And that is just not for Netas. Every citizen needs to possess that treasure.

Hope I didn't soak you wet with my ranting downpour there -

Thanks for the link. I did locate the group when I went scouting earlier, but still good to have a link in case I ever get lost in the jungle.

Thanks again. Take Care.

Jai Hind.

Summit.

I agree with you. In any situation, a person will have two ways to do anything. The RIGHT way & a WRONG way. But in India, we have a third option, that is in a POLITICAL WAY.. If you have supporters, your WRONG is portrayed as RIGHT & if you have a large opposition, your RIGHT becomes a BIG WRONG... But do we need to stop doing the RIGHT things..!?!

I dont believe in "Right thing at the Right time!". In my opinion, there is never a wrong time to do the Right thing.

I think the studies in a school or college or any institute is not education.

As Swami Vivekananda said,

"We want that education by which character is formed, stength of mind is increased, the intellect is expanded and by which one can stand one's own feet!"

The students are afraid to face exams (I am not an exception). Is he afraid of education? No, he is afraid of studies, which he was forced to undergo. If a farmer, with his experience can guide his son to cultivate better crops then I would consider it as education. It doesn't matter how much you learnt. What matters is "how well you are able to use your knowledge in real time for yourself and/or for the society."

Its a high time for us, as a team of Anna, to EDUCATE the citizens of our country to decide themselves to do the RIGHT thing. Educate, in the sense, not teaching them Alphabets but let them know about the system. It is not possible, if we can't start it now. We still have more than 2 years. Even though we have lack of resources, especially money, we need start this process as soon as possible as our strength is our honest people & their valuable time. Anything, whether its RIGHT or WRONG can be done instantly with money. But to do the RIGHT thing even in WRONG circumstances, we need mentally strong, dedicated & honest people & their TIME...

Sorry for my bad english...

Regards,
Raghav

Summit Ensign · #16 08-28-2011

FANTASTICALLY put, Raghav.....I couldn't have done it better.....

Yes, Education is that Learning which can be tested out in practice...

Given our financial resources, and our current occupations (studying), I feel the only and the best way would be to talk about it and spread the message. I know we would be incarcerated by some, but then there would also be those that would be receptive to our views.

Some of the ways to get across that I feel might be feasible at this time -

(a) Direct talking to our Neighbours, Friends, Relatives, Acquaintances etc.

(b) Talking about it in Social Media

(c) Writing or Speaking about it in Blogs, Articles, Posts, Comments and other communication on different electronic Platforms

(d) Writing about it in Articles and Essays in the Print Media

(e) Emailing Anti-Corruption Forums like India Against Corruption etc.

(f) Forming Small Citizen Groups and Pursuing Relevant Discussions and Activities if Time Permits

(g) Disbursing Newsletters in Electronic Media or Pamphlets in Print.

These are the things we can do Raghav. For the bigger things, like Running for Elections, Preparing for them and Large-Scale Awareness Programs, I feel it is best left to the Senior Think-tank and more Knowledgeable and Experienced people like Retired Judges, Ex-IAS, IPS or IFS Officers and the like as of now, because -

(a) Indian Society is very complex and they've seen a lot of it

(b) Indian Polity is very complex and they have some idea since they have been a part of it

(c) Experience is a wealth which has very few Substitutes - they have the Education not only of Theory, but also of Practice - they have seen a lot of life, and dealt with so much of it, that they will be to take Practical Decisions.

(d) They are at that stage in life where they can muster, manage and afford the Resources, namely the Time and Effort to do it. Sadly in India, most young people are not well settled, and they still have to run around for their bread and butter. In such circumstances, I feel not many youngsters can come around and commit themselves fully to the task of Political Activities, for they might have mouths to feed back at home. But a positive aspect is that these very people might be able to serve the cause with small donations that they can afford, in terms of time, effort and money.

(e) Due to much of what I said in Point (d) above, I feel it is not yet conducive for youth from common families in India to join Active Politics Fulltime. However, once the Seniors have attained office, they might work towards changing that scenario and in a few years we might see more opportunities coming up.

But in no way should this be construed that this is not worth enough. Rather, a little time from a lot of people will add up to a lot, and further, the youth today should focus on its own education, because if they don't, we won't get enough of a supply of able people in the future. India is what it is today because most of its people have very low levels of education, being deprived of it mainly due to poverty, and if the youth today too were to sacrifice its present education completely for political activities, I don't see any change happening to the status quo. On the contrary, only a well educated youth would provide us the efficient workforce that we would need to create the nation of our dreams. Therefore I urge the youth of this country to attend well to their studies.

But yes, I feel the youth should put in some time to discuss political issues so as to stay Politically Conscious. And I feel they could well do that by the means I've described above.

Hence the way I feel. Let me know your thoughts on it.

Wish you all the best,

Summit.

raghavwidluv · #17 08-29-2011

FANTASTICALLY put, Raghav.....I couldn't have done it better.....

Yes, Education is that Learning which can be tested out in practice...

Given our financial resources, and our current occupations (studying), I feel the only and the best way would be to talk about it and spread the message. I know we would be incarcerated by some, but then there would also be those that would be receptive to our views.

Some of the ways to get across that I feel might be feasible at this time -

(a) Direct talking to our Neighbours, Friends, Relatives, Acquaintances etc.

(b) Talking about it in Social Media

(c) Writing or Speaking about it in Blogs, Articles, Posts, Comments and other communication on different electronic Platforms

(d) Writing about it in Articles and Essays in the Print Media

(e) Emailing Anti-Corruption Forums like India Against Corruption etc.

(f) Forming Small Citizen Groups and Pursuing Relevant Discussions and Activities if Time Permits

(g) Disbursing Newsletters in Electronic Media or Pamphlets in Print.

These are the things we can do Raghav. For the bigger things, like Running for Elections, Preparing for them and Large-Scale Awareness Programs, I feel it is best left to the Senior Think-tank and more Knowledgeable and Experienced people like Retired Judges, Ex-IAS, IPS or IFS Officers and the like as of now, because -

(a) Indian Society is very complex and they've seen a lot of it

(b) Indian Polity is very complex and they have some idea since they have been a part of it

(c) Experience is a wealth which has very few Substitutes - they have the Education not only of Theory, but also of Practice - they have seen a lot of life, and dealt with so much of it, that they will be to take Practical Decisions.

(d) They are at that stage in life where they can muster, manage and afford the Resources, namely the Time and Effort to do it. Sadly in India, most young people are not well settled, and they still have to run around for their bread and butter. In such circumstances, I feel not many youngsters can come around and commit themselves fully to the task of Political Activities, for they might have mouths to feed back at home. But a positive aspect is that these very people might be able to serve the cause with small donations that they can afford, in terms of time, effort and money.

(e) Due to much of what I said in Point (d) above, I feel it is not yet conducive for youth from common families in India to join Active Politics Fulltime. However, once the Seniors have attained office, they might work towards changing that scenario and in a few years we might see more opportunities coming up.

But in no way should this be construed that this is not worth enough. Rather, a little time from a lot of people will add up to a lot, and further, the youth today should focus on its own education, because if they don't, we won't get enough of a supply of able people in the future. India is what it is today because most of its people have very low levels of education, being deprived of it mainly due to poverty, and if the youth today too were to sacrifice its present education completely for political activities, I don't see any change happening to the status quo. On the contrary, only a well educated youth would provide us the efficient workforce that we would need to create the nation of our dreams. Therefore I urge the youth of this country to attend well to their studies.

But yes, I feel the youth should put in some time to discuss political issues so as to stay Politically Conscious. And I feel they could well do that by the means I've described above.

Hence the way I feel. Let me know your thoughts on it.

Wish you all the best,

Summit.

Thank you for your reply Summit. When I read my own previous post, I felt it is somewhat off-topic to this thread. However, I think it justifed OUR view on current politics.

I agree with your view that the young generation & as well as experienced senior citizens should have their contribution in politics. Some people may argue that there should be a retirement age in politics as most of the ministers and almost all PMs were in their late 70's or 80's. They cant handle themselves and the whole country's responsibility is kept on them. But, as you said, senior citizens can contribute to the nation as they have much free time and their valuable experience, which is definitely a drawback of the youth. I definitely support this. The youngsters can grab that experience along with their studies/job. For time being, we should have the seniors in the lead and as the youth get settled and have a clear picture of everything then they should be in the driving seat at the earliest and the average age of politicians should reduce to an extent.

The ideas you suggested are fabulous. But I have seen people here, blaming the individuals, especially after Anna's fast has started. I am completely against such things. A person, who is not ready to take the RESPONSIBILITY, do not have any RIGHT to blame any individual or the system.

As Mahathma Gandhi said,

"You must be the change you want to see in the world."

The only reason to join this forums is to have some healthy discussions on current politics and changes that we need. Even though it takes time to implement all such ideas; its sad that no one is much interested in such discussions, in forums which were started for a noble cause. What we have achieved blaming some individual.? Do you think Blogs, Articles, Posts, Comments etc. will work out in such conditions. They have time for Facebook but they don't have time for the country and their children's bright future by making our society a better place to live.

I would like to add one more point that, your idea of Blogs, Articles etc is suitable for the Urban conditions. For the rural conditions, the only way is to have direct interaction. But who is going to do it? The youngsters from the urban areas have that ability to educate but the question is, when they can come forward to take that responsibility. Even though they might be busy with their studies & career, a minimum participation is necessary for their own future. Otherwise, they have to live with the system & history and MUST STOP blaming individuals and the system.

If one can't make any difference the way things are going then they should keep quiet, dont blame it on others.

As I said earlier, completing our studies does not complete our education. As an employee of a Govt. organisation, I would say that, one should also have the knowledge of political conditions of the country, as they are affecting our career options directly or indirectly.

Sorry, if my views sounds negative this time. I couldn't express my views in a sysmatic manner as you. I have written, whatever came in mind. Once, we start some healthy discussions with like-minded people, we can have much better outcome.

Thanks & Regards,

Raghav

Summit Ensign · #18 08-29-2011

Well Raghav,

I feel you're being too hard on yourself. Let me explain -

(1) No, you previous post is NOT off-topic to this thread. In fact, it represents the Spiritual Essence behind the Practical, Brick-and-Mortar Steps and Procedures that we're discussing here. Both You and I are thinking on the same lines.

(2) True, you must not blame anyone unless you have tested their responsibility out for yourself. I too do not believe in slurring people without understanding their situation.

(However, I must honestly admit to an EXCEPTION - I do take digs at 'NETAS' in moments of humour, as I've done on some threads in the 'Fun and Pranks' section here, but even then I try and keep my words as civil as possible. You may check out - Indian Politician Kapil Sibal Goes to Mars , The Lie Clock of Corrupt P.Chidambram , Application Form for Indian Elections . To add to that, I also find myself unable to restrain my anger when I see someone blatantly abuse their power and the trust people repose in them, as the members of the Nehru and Gandhi family have done, as have so many of our other Parliamentarians.)

(3) True, Youth today have time for Facebook but not for national and social causes. But I think the movement that Annaji has precipitated is going to change a lot of that. As I said, I feel that he has sent a Spiritual Tsunami surging across the nation. Just look at the sheer number of youth that participated. That alone encourages me to think, that if now, we're able to do what we're talking about, we could get very different results.

(4) Correct, the idea of Blogs, Articles etc is suitable for the Urban conditions, and for the rural masses, the chunk of the pie lies in direct communication. But, as so many have formulated what is called the 'Trickle-Down Effect' in Economics, I'm upbeat from the prospects of Annaji's Movement to expect a 'Leak-Sideways Effect', i.e. the effect of blogs and social media reaches the cities, then the towns, and then the Villages. This WILL take time, but given the state of the Indian society today, I feel expecting a fast change is well distanced from reality. In fact, all social changes involve numerous parameters, and they're therefore more often slow than not. Further, the Indian society in its present state has to undergo a huge metamorphosis, an enormous Spiritual Renaissance, if the change that we're so seeking is to anyway come by. That will, in all probability, take time. All we need to do now is - work! Leave the rest to Providence! Karmanayye Vadhikaraste, Maphaleshu Kadachana.

(Caveats : (i) Trickle-Down Effect has worked only in situations where it has been efficiently managed (ii) 'Leak-Sideways Effect' is a term I coined right off my head to succinctly describe a possible situation; whether it has any academic usage or acceptance is unknown to me.)

(5) Correct, the Youth do need to have a strong knowledge of the Political, and more importantly the Social, conditions of a country. But that can only be achieved by the active participation of the Elders today, for under the prevailing conditions, the call to the youth to join Politics Fulltime rightaway seems to me not to be a practical idea. Right now, they should concentrate on their studies. In India at least, without a strong Educational grounding, it's pretty difficult to get your voice heard. You can certainly travel to the moon, but you need to build a spacecraft for that. That involves quite an amount of Time and Effort, but more importantly, a BIG LEARNING CURVE. Without the knowledge of the Technology involved, there's simply no way that you can do that. Get me, why I'm stressing so much on studies ?

(6) No, Your views DON'T sound negative. On the contrary, they sound optimistic. It is people like you, who think for their nation, that are the ones going to make any difference to her future. The rest are not. And most importantly, you're not just concerned - you're trying to take some action. Action requires Planning, Planning Discussion, and Discussion Deliberation. You are already taking the first steps. They may be small now, but remember, they will all add up in future. Just get you views across to others - as many others as you can. Try and channel their thoughts to this cause. Thoughts are the Fuel of Human Action. But a word of caution : whatever you do, do very well within your limits. Do not exceed them, otherwise you might not be able to balance them.

(7) "I couldn't express my views in a sysmatic manner as you" - that's entirely untrue. Your thoughts are expressed nicely, in a lucid and well ordered manner. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading what you've written, and I'm sure many others will. More importantly, your reflections appear born out of dedicated introspection and deep contemplation. Please continue adding value to my posts with them.

Hope that quells your doubts.

Wish you all the best,

Summit.

raghavwidluv · #19 09-02-2011

Hi Summit,

Thank you for all the clarifications... I agree that younsters need education with strong basics... No more IFs & BUTs from my side... Lets concentrate on HOW to go forward to achieve our goals... We should start testing the young blood now...

Regards,
Raghav

Summit Ensign · #20 09-02-2011

Hello Raghav,

Great to hear from you again.

IFs and BUTs, put in the right spirit, are valuable...they are the spirit of debate...and the ladder of philosophy...no need to unnecessarily restrain them...a lack can create the typical fever of a section of Indians - sycophancy (chamchagiri).

For the ways and means to go forward, I feel we could begin with these -

(1) Educate yourself in whatever you're doing, or whatever you like doing - not only to get a job, but also to become an Expert.

(2) Whenever you go out, try and observe the problems that people around are facing, especially the poor ones. If possible, if you feel like it and if they show interest, talk to them in detail. Tell them about yourself, about Anna Hazare and his Movement, and then ask them about their problems, how long they have lingered, and why they haven't been solved yet. And yes, keep a detailed note of all such activities in a file or notebook, including the date, the issue on which you talked, the name(s) of the person(s) you spoke to, their address, mobile number, or some way to contact them, and the details you gathered. Also take a note of the Politicians from that area, right from the Panchayat/Municipality level to the MLA and the MP.

(3) Simultaneously, try and get across to Educated and Nationally Conscious People in your area, and team up with them.

(4) Together, you could then open a blog (many free blogging sites available like blogger, wordpress-dot-com, blogspot, hubpages and so on. Personally I feel blogger is the best.) and put up those exact details on it IN A TABULAR FORM. This blog will then become the REPORT CARD OF THE POLITICIANS IN YOUR AREA.

(5) Together with your team, approach the Elected Representatives (Panchayat/Municipality, MLA, MP) of that area and talk to them about those issues, and find out what they are doing to alleviate the problems. If they haven't done anything, find out what they are going to do and BY WHEN. Come back and put those things back in your blog. At regular intervals, go and match their performance with their words, and come back and post the results again. NOW YOU'VE CREATED A REPORT CARD FOR THE POLITICIANS IN YOUR AREA, THAT IS OPEN FOR THE ENTIRE NATION TO SEE. (Caveat : However, do NOT do these activities alone. Get at least 10-12 people in you team before you start approaching politicians. And don't stop there. Keep adding people. And never go to the Politicians alone. Take at least 4-5 people with you so they can act as witnesses to what those leaders have said. Also if possible, take small audio or video recording devices with you and so that you can kep a record of what they are saying. But always take their permission before recording. Preserve those audio/video recordings carefully; keep multiple copies if possible. Upload them to a safe, private place on the web if you feel that way. And be cautioned, you could always face Political Retribution for going against corrupt Netas. You could get harassed; or something even more serious might happen. Always keep that in mind.)

(5) At the same time, try and come up with creative solutions to the problems of people, and suggest those to them. They may try them out if they so wish.

(6) And at the same time, we need to educate people about Population Control. Educate them about the benefits of a small family, and how they can make their children better and happier citizens that way. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

(7) Businesses and Industries are very important. They are a strong step of development for they increase society's Financial well-being and provide employment, both directly and indirectly. If you're trained in setting up businesses, you may help people do that, either as personal businesses, or firms, or companies, or as co-operative societies. But remember, this is very tough; so make sure you're trained and experienced enough to handle it; otherwise it could create more problems than benefits.

Those are a few steps I feel we could do within our limited resources. However, remember again, do not put yourself at any risk in trying to do these. Your first value is for yourself and your family members.

And these little steps done by us will add up to a lot. For every hour donated by a hundred persons, the nation gets 100 hours of work. Increase the zeroes and you have the quantum of service increase in multiples of ten.

Those are some of my ideas. If you have creative thoughts of your own, please share with us.

Best Wishes,

Summit.

High time.....anna supporters should contest next elections and we should make them win

Created the group, as and when you find time contribute... About studies etc - you can always find time even .....