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ANNa has given the direction!

Thanks Annaji for 1. not letting Advaniji/BJP to hijack this people's movement through his RATHYATRA!!! 2. sidelining baba Ramdev from .....




  #1  
09-15-2011
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ANNa has given the direction!


Thanks Annaji for
1. not letting Advaniji/BJP to hijack this people's movement through
his RATHYATRA!!!

2. sidelining baba Ramdev from his movement.

3. showing the zealots behind him the way........
formation of a Party comprising honest people drawn from
every organisation(poltical/nonpolitical) in society.

Now some details..

1. not letting Advaniji/BJP to hijack this people's movement through
his RATHYATRA!!!
As a main opposition party it was the duty of BJP to fight against the corruption from parliament to streets.
I feel somewhere there was some acceptence of corruption in public taht it is a evil that will remain............this acceptance has emboldened the congressmen to set new records in corruption.
See the magnitude of embezzlements made in 2 G and Commonwealth!!
Other parties simply followed suit, in states,whosoever was in the hot seat!!
In case of BJP, just look Karnataka and Uttarakhand!!!
What's the difference between above mentioned states and Gujarat and Bihar(BJP in coalition)?
In Bihar Nitish totally sidelined BJP and is working independently without any interference from BJP central leaders.I must appreciate the role of Sushil modi,state BJP leader, for smooth coalition.
Same with Gujarat, Narendra Modi is having a stature, that no central leaders of BJP dare interfere!
In Karnataka and Uttarakhand, BJP central leaders interefere in every matter, corrupt ministers are protected by some BJP central leaders.
They have used their states for minting money.
Now how can they have enough time for movement against corruption.
Now by Rathyatra they are trying to encash the public mood for their own political benefit. Now how can they gain people's faith? By and by its becoming clear that Advaniji has failed to inspire the people,unlike his last rathyatra!!!
Because after the announcement of rathyatra BJP is busy in removing and reinstalling CM's in Uttarakhand in the fond hope that they will catch people's imagination. But the moot question is why was Mr Khanduri removed in first place(because of his honesty). Why?

One frank admission would not be out of place here-

Many people of those who came forward and supported Ana's movement was BJP sympathisers(at some point of time). Few were there as this movement targets Congress govt. at the centre. But many, almost all were there,due to there own unimpeachable integrity and their undying love for their country.

2. sidelining baba Ramdev from his movement

About a year back, Baba Ramdev alleged that sometime back a minister of Uttarakhand cabinet had asked for bribe of Two Crores and he even complained to then Chiefminister. And he would disclose the names soon. But it was very clear from his version that he is talking about then CM Khanduri and Cabinet minister Diwakar Bhatt. (By then ex-CM ) Kahanduri held a press conference and talked of Defamation Suit. Diwakar Bhatt just thundered that soon he was going held a press conference on this matter. By the way, that press conference never materialised.

The public were on the streets of Uttarakhand under the banner of Uttarakhand Lok Panchayat(ULP) demanding Baba Ramdev to disclose the names. But he kept mum on this issue. Why?

There can be two reasons-

a. He was blackmailing or/and

b. He was playing someone's (Nishank and BJP) political game. By getting Khanduri within firing range he was helping CM Nishank. And by directly attacking Diwakar Bhatt, he was decimating UKD, the only regional party, formed in 1979, thus helping BJP in votebank politics.

and when ULP activists sat on fast unto death in support of Anna ji, in April which continued they vehemently raised this issue demanding Baba Ramdev to disclose the names.
Though we supported his demands on the issues corruption and Black money, and respect many of his supporters for their integrity and love for their country. We even condemned the treatment given to them by Congress, but we never considered Baba Ramdev, Balkishan and company aboveboard. And as I belong to this state I am more aware of most of the Baba's and their style of functioning.
Even on the last day of Anna's fast unto death in April, he sounded a note of slight discord with Annaji. He wanted to follow Anna's path and look bigeer in stature, but never had truth on his side, thus failed although issues raised were forthright.
After Delhi fiasco, his comments about formation of Army was inexcusable and shows level of his faith on the constitution, system and country. Thus instaed of gaining public symathy he lost it pretty badly.
So once again I thank Anna ji for sidelining him.
Again many of Baba supporters were there with Annaji during his Fast in August with baba's photo, since Day1.

So far what I discussed was mostly history. Now lets talk about future.

3. Though it is said that Annaji would go to places where assembly elections are due, and ask public to support right candidate. That exercise is quite complicated and lacks clear signal to public and it does not empowers Anna ji to do what exactly he wants.
Thus even Annaji agreed to the need for formation of a political party (See my posts as well as others under the thread Should Annaji form apolitical party.)
Now we should carefully understand the way he wants it to be. He has said that honest people form both BJP and Congress. It means honesty and integrity is the criteria, which organization he belongs to is immaterial.
Now that requires a very big team working in that direction, all over the country.
Now I invite replies form frndz over how this work is done on the ground!!!
thanks and regards

Last edited by Prakash Tiwari; 09-15-2011 at 05:17 AM : incomplete posting, continued further
  #2  
09-15-2011
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Dear Prakash,

I am overjoyed that Annaji has finally decided to support the cause politically; however I feel there is an important difference we must note.

I have talked about this somewhere else on this forum too, and I'm repeating this here too. I'm repeating this because I feel it's very important.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THE DIFFERENCE.

ANNAJI HAS ANNOUNCED THAT HE WILL NOT FIGHT ELECTIONS; THAT HE WILL NOT FORM A POLITICAL PARTY.

ALL HE HAS SAID IS THAT HE WILL SUPPORT ANY POLITICAL OUTFIT WHICH PROMISES TO FIGHT CORRUPTION AND SUPPORT THE JAN LOKPAL BILL, EVEN IF THAT POLITICAL OUTFIT IS A NEW ONE.

WE SHOULD ALL TAKE CARE TO MAINTAIN THE DIFFERENCE; BECAUSE OTHERWISE IT CAN FUEL RUMOURS ABOUT ANNAJI GOING POLITICAL, WHICH HE'S CLEARLY NOT. IF SUCH RUMOURS SPREAD, VESTED INTERESTS COULD TRY TO MALIGN ANNAJI AND SPOIL HIS IMAGE, IN ORDER TO HARM THE MOVEMENT.

ANNAJI HIMSELF HAS RUBBISHED THE RUMOURS ONCE; WE MUST NOT LET IT COME UP AGAIN.

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING POST. PL
EASE NOTE THAT THIS IS A LINK NOT JUST TO THE THREAD, BUT DIRECTLY TO THE POST IN THAT THREAD THAT CONTAINS THIS INFORMATION. I REPEAT - IT IS A LINK DIRECTLY TO THAT POST, AND NOT JUST THE THREAD. HERE IT IS -
LINK : High time.....anna supporters should contest next elections and we should make them win (Please Note that this is a Link DIRECTLY to the POST, and NOT JUST the THREAD.)
Thank You,

Summit.
  #3  
09-15-2011
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Main sirf anna ji ke sath hu aur ye chahta hu ki koi bhi party ho bjp ya koi aur ab wo janbhavana ka fayda na utha paye
JAI HIND
  #4  
09-16-2011
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Dear ss6471,

apki bat bilkul sahi aur gehri hai.

Koi bhi vartman rajnitik dal jo ki ghotalo me lipt raha hai aj janbhavna ka labh uthakar satta me pahunchkar apna ullu na sidha kar paye...

tab naye dal ka vikalp hi khula rehta hai...

pure desh me naye dal ka sangthan aur chunav ladne walo ka chayan...apne ap me ek badi prakriya...aur sansadhan simit hai...

iske liye hame jeha Assembly election due hai ek rajya ka chayan kar usme prayog ke taur par dal banakar chunav ladna chahiye...

Anna ji ka har star par isme involvement sahi nahi hoga....par ek bar jab dal ka manifesto taiyar ho jaye...

Anna ji uske adhar par tatha sangthan aur candidates ki background janchne ke bad
aapna samarthan us dal ko de!!

kisi bhi rajya me itne kam ko zamin se lekar vaha tak khada karne ke liye bhi Ek Hanuman ji ki avashyakta hogi....vit badi samasya hai....

Mai jis rajya (Uttarakhand) se ata hun veha is prayog ko karna chahta hun.....Vit ki samasya ka samadhan janta se paise mangkar kiya jayega na ki corporates mafia se kyunki mantri janta ke hitarth kam karenge na ki corporates ke...
ap logon ki rai mere liye kafi mahatva rakhti hai aur mujhe isse margdarshan milta rahega

dhanyavad

Jai HIND!!!
  #5  
09-16-2011
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Dear Summit,
I came back in the afternoon to read ur post wanted to
reply then but had some engaement somewhere.

U have every reason to be overjoyed.

I am not able to track every TV channel and newspapers religiosly.

I saw press conference of team Anna after first meeting.
On second day Isaw PTI release.
On third day I heard Anna ji in an Interview just for two minutes.
A cursory readings of local papers, mainly headings and subheadings.

My post was based on that. I May have missed finer details. On that I beleive your version to be true. Lets discuss further.

Anna ji has felt the necessity of a new political party. Now you have to get people with credibility who run the organization and fight the election, all over the country.
In my mind its better to have new faces, but doing things listed above needs Team with people with experience and some political savvy. Now experienced persons are engaged with some political parties. We have to draw those with clean image from these parties. But funding remains the issue, I heard even Annaji talking about limited resources.
.. not a small task..
and u say Annaji will not form a party then who will...
..... Anna ji will support .. at what stage Anna ji's support will come, what kind of support will that be...

I feel as politics is a tricky business, at times zero sum game(See Baba Ramdev),....
So we have to save Annaji from this mud....ok ..
...Now someone has to take up the challenge...Who can it be ...Team Anna, civil society,India against corruption...
..presently no one has declared that he has taken up that responsibility. From whre will they come....
I feel it has to be from amongst us. Now taking up the responsibility for the whole country is impossible. But definitely we can select a state, where assembly elections are due, as a model and experiment...
its possible that we make mistakes.. but we can anayse and learn quickly from our mistakes, if we want to make a difference in 2014 Lok Sabha elections.
I belong to the state fo Uttarakhand where elections are due within six months.

I am ready to take up the challenge in this state....
from formation of a political outfit to selection of people with credibility to run organization and fight elections..
for funds we will take it from the people(with perfect accounting), not from corportaes, mafia etc. as we will work in the interests of the people not otherwise.
..If we are able to set all this upto the the runup to elections then I expect..

Annaji to come and address a rally(estimate of one lakh can be more) ask people to support

(This will be only after looking at the manifesto and verifying the credentials of the candidates.)

Frndz,in this endeavour, I need ur opinion and views regularly to guide me

thanks
  #6  
09-16-2011
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Dear Prakash,

That was BEAUTIFUL....MINDBLOWING....ONE OF THE BEST POLITICAL ANALYSES of the situation that I've read so far.

More of this is needed...instead what I find on many other threads People only jumping about Narendra Modi and Rahul Gandhi...as if India does not have any other options...any other better person.

What you've written is EXACTLY what is called for. Though I do have a small suggestion to make - I'll do that later - let me first focus on the essentials.

And that is, I'm ready to to support you and anyone in any noble Endeavour that they take to cleanse the system of our country. I'm in West Bengal, Kolkata, and will do whatever possible (though keeping in view my studies and my exams) to help you and others who take up this great cause.

Yes, I do have a suggestion - a tiny tweak to the process - and that is, instead of a Political Party, we fight the Elections as a Civilian Association. I've already written about that earlier on this forum, so instead of repeating I'll just give you the links, and hope that does fine.

Ok...First for a basic Definition of a Civilian Association, you could go here -
High time.....anna supporters should contest next elections and we should make them win (this is a DIRECT LINK TO THE POST, and NOT JUST the THREAD)
And about the Nature and Utility of Civilian Associations, visit this -
Should Shri Anna Hajare form a Political Party ? (again, a DIRECT LINK TO THE POST, and NOT JUST the THREAD)
I understand that implementing the idea of a Civilian Association might be slightly more difficult (I emphasise - "might be", though I'm not quite sure) than a Political Party; however, I feel it WOULD provide certain advantages over a Political Party. A Civilian Association would NOT suffer from the vices that we've outlined for a Political Party here (interestingly, this is the same discussion that You and I had some time back... ) -
Does a SEPARATION OF POWERS really exist IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM ?
A Civilian Association would not have the strength to turn turtle - rakshak se bhakshak nahin ban payega - because the Individual Members that constitute it would not have the "Wealth and Muscle" needed to influence outcomes.

Futher, a Civilian Association could show that the Janata of this country could fight Elections even without a Political Party, and thus bolster both the Morale and the Image of Independent Candidates, and bring them in as a Powerful Force to Reckon with in the Political Atmosphere of India. That will set a Precedent to all other Political Parties, clearly warning them of the dangers of Political Oblivion if they were to turn Corrupt.

But then, I wouldn't really keep insisting on a Civilian Association if it looks difficult at this time
. What I feel more important is to put the Political Machinery of Honest and Dedicated People in place; whether that comes as a Political Party or as a Civilian Association right now is not on top of the list (though I'd certainly prefer Civilian Associations).

Therefore, I'm with you in whatever manner or nature you decide to fight, and I'll put forward the best help possible (though that might be somewhat limited due to the Studies and Exams I'm going through right now).

For a Start, I have a suggestion -

(1) Why don't we set up a Thread on this Forum where we can ask for people who wish to Volunteer to Verify the Credentials of People who wish to run for Elections for us. That does the first step - it Creates the Backbone for Recruiting Potential Candidates.

(2) Second, once we have that Backbone in Place, we Start a Thread to Request Applications from People who actually want to Contest the Elections.

I know this idea might sound silly, but then, if not for anything else, lets do it as a Political Exercise. At least this will give us some idea of the Reality of the Basis on which we are Hoisting these Ideas. Lets Test Ourselves. And who knows, that this might actually turn out to be the Powerful Step that sets the Machinery that we're so seeking into Motion.


This brainer might now be only in its infancy; but then we can certainly modify and improve upon it as we keep gathering experience.

But before we do, we need to set up this Disclaimer on that Thread : "The Activity in this thread is being done solely as a Political Exercise. The Outcome of this Exercise is not Guaranteed in any manner whatsoever. People submitting their names to, using Information from, or dealing with this thread in any manner whatsoever will do so completely at their own risk. This thread and any Person or Organisation related or connected with it in any manner whatsoever will not be in any way responsible for any result or consequence, whether direct or indirect, whether express or implied, that comes out of it. You've been Warned."

And it should also carry a request - "Please keep all your posts in this thread honest and clean to the best of your knowledge. We intend to take this up as a Serious Political Exercise, therefore we request you to kindly keep up with the noble image and intentions behind it, and treat this thread with all the due Respect and Honesty that it Deserves. Thank You."

Or Maybe, better still, let us first run a Thread to Decide and Finalise the Text, Context, Declarations, Requests, Disclaimers, and anything else, that we need to put up, and then open the Solicitation thread. I think that would be better.

For a beginning, lets start a thread with a Vote on it, whether Anna's supporters should run for Elections as a Political Party, or as a Civilian Association. On that thread the First Article should explain the difference between the two. We could also ask for comments on the nature and background of the People they wish to see in that Outfit.

NOTE : WE MIGHT KEEP SUCH THREADS TIME-BOUND, i.e. People will have to respond within a Certain Period of time. (Your Opinions).

Finally, for a hint on the possible risks that this might entail, let me give you a small link (a post that I put up some time back - when Annaji's Fast was going on) -
Lokpal can CERTAINLY be passed within 2+1/2 Years.

Ok, that's what I wanted to say here.

What say you ?

Let me know.


Thanks,

Summit.

Last edited by Summit Ensign; 09-16-2011 at 05:21 PM
  #7  
09-17-2011
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Dear Summit,

I am following your links. It will take time. I will come back ASAP!

thanks
  #8  
09-17-2011
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Dear Summit,

I am following your links. It will take time. I will come back ASAP!

thanks

You're Welcome...Please take your time...
  #9  
09-17-2011
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Friends
Please make ur post small & simple so every one could read & unerstand
  #10  
09-17-2011
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Building a Nation is no small task...Men who direct history know not a page, but volumes...

Complex ideas take time and space to mature...the ink on them can often weigh a lot...

Undue inflation is something that I too do not like, and if you notice that on any post, let us know, and we can discuss...Please point out the name of the member directly in that case...

As for myself, I've seldom come across a Post in this Forum that had uncalled-for bloat...most of the Voluminous Posts had their expanse justified...

And in those miniscule number that did, I just avoided them.

To be able to select from a moundful just the ones we need is a trait I feel is well-cherished, especially as Citizens of a Democracy. After all, Democracy is pick and choose, and a Strong Democracy is Pick well and Choose well.

However, I certainly share your concern on excessive balloonings, and would appreciate your endeavour to point them out with specific references and reasons.

All the Best,

Thanks,

Summit.

 



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